July 17, 2002. This is an interview with Mr. Joseph J. Buckley in his home in Las Vegas, Nevada.

This is Patrick Carlton, Interviewer. I'm speaking with Mr. Joseph Buckley about his professional life and his involvement with the Rotary Club of Las Vegas and District 5300 of Rotary International.

Mr. Joseph J. Buckley, a resident of Las Vegas since 1969, was Corporate Director of Human Resources for the Howard Hughes hotel chain and, later, served with the local office of the Chicago Title Company. Mr. Buckley joined the Rotary Club of Las Vegas in 1976, serving as President during 1982-3. He was District 5300 Governor in 1985-86 and was a Paul Harris Fellow. Mr. Buckley died in 2003.

Mr. Buckley, for the record, would you please give your complete name, your current address, and your Rotary affiliation?

Joseph J. Buckley, and my address is 3224 Calle De El Cortez, Las Vegas, Nevada, 89102. I've been a member of Rotary since 1976, and during that time and to date I've held the various offices in the club, the Las Vegas Rotary Club, being a member of the board of directors, serving on various and sundry committees, ultimately becoming president in 1982-83, and then in the year 1985, I became district governor of district 5300. Also, before becoming governor and after becoming district governor, I also served on a number of district committees, and assisted with the planning for the international convention here in 1985-86.

Could you talk about your birthplace and how you got your early education, and how you ended up here in Las Vegas?

Fine. My birthplace is Bronx, New York City, New York, and I was initially brought into the world there, and then at an early age of about five, we moved to Staten Island where I went through parochial grammar school and high school, and upon graduating from high school, I was just interested in going to work. My parents offered me the opportunity to go to college. I had a college entrance diploma from high school. However, I decided that I wanted to go to work, and I went to work in the insurance industry in New York. While in the insurance industry, I went to night school and obtained the necessary credits through Columbia University for the basic core work to become a fire insurance underwriter, which I ultimately became, and after being in the business approximately three years, and that takes me through about 1950. Then in 1951, I had been in the reserve up to that point, about four years, the Naval Reserve. And the Naval Reserve activated me during the Korean Conflict, and I wound up becoming a structural mechanic in the naval air branch.

My college education came later on. I met my wife at the USO, believe it or not, in Oxnard, California. I was stationed at Point Mugo with the navy's first guided missile squadron, VX4. We were married then in 1954, and I went to work at that time for Douglas Aircraft in Long Beach. I had worked on Douglas planes when I was in the navy, and I started out in production, became a supervisor in production and then moved after some time to customer service. However, I worked with the Air Force in a delivery of their product, and they had problems with certain systems, I had responsibility for certain models of aircraft, and I would work with the Air Force and our engineering department at Douglas to seek a resolution of those mechanical problems. And then, I would say about 1958 I decided that I had an opportunity to get into labor relations for Douglas, entering for the first time really into the human resource management side of my job history. And I started working in labor relations.

From about, I would say 1956 to 1959, I was attending Long Beach City College taking liberal arts courses there, and I never did receive my associate of arts degree there. However, I think I was something like three to five units from getting my associate of arts degree. I did start some coursework over at Long Beach State College, but I think I only took about five or six courses there, and by then we had three children and I was now working at night in my labor relations position and selling insurance during the daytime interwoven with my schooling. So I was a busy fellow at that time, and so let's

Okay, from there I left the Douglas organization. There was a downturn for Douglas, and they were kind enough to help me get a job in my classification as a labor relations rep with North American Aviation. Worked for them at their Los Angeles plant on such interesting projects as their T39 project, their X15 project in my labor relations capacity. I did do some public speaking for them on the X15 with service clubs within the Los Angeles area near the plant.

Then about nineteen let's see, 1963, I was transferred to the space division on the Apollo Saturn program, which was probably the most exciting time of my life. I became a senior labor relations rep and then subsequently assistant director of labor relations at the space division. And my job as assistant director of labor relations took me to all of the major test facilities for the Apollo Saturn as it related to where the engines were being constructed and tested, to the firing of the engines down inland from Biloxi, down to the environmental chamber, where we tested the Apollo command module and service module in Clear Lake, Texas, and then over to the Cape [Kennedy], putting on management training programs for them. And like I say, [this was] the most exciting time of my life.

I was with Rockwell up until 1969. I would say up ‘til about August of '69, right about the first of August of '69. Man had already been on the moon, and I received a call from one of the employees that I knew that worked for Howard Hughes up in Las Vegas at the Desert Inn. We had both worked at the space division for a while, then he left, and he invited me to come up to be interviewed for the position of personnel director at the Desert Inn. I told him that we were really ocean/mountain people, and I had no desire to go to the desert, but he talked me into coming up at least for the weekend and meeting some of the people at the Desert Inn. And now, that's – to make the long story hopefully a little shorter here, I've been here now in Las Vegas 33 years this coming August, and it was all because I listened to him about coming up and taking a look at the position at the Desert Inn. I became the HR director, or personnel director for them; then in 1969 and in 1971 I became their corporate director of HR for all their hotels and casinos.

Remained there, as I said I think earlier, until about March of 1985, and in 1985, I left the Hughes organization and opened my own HR consulting firm in town, and I consulted with hotels and casinos and a variety of businesses here in Las Vegas. One of my clients was the Chicago Title Agency, which was a title and escrow company, and about 1991, while I had my consulting firm still running, they made me an offer to join them as a full-time employee, and I've been there ever since.

That's quite a career. So far.

So far, right.

Let's see, you mentioned your marriage. Do you have children, and if so could you talk about who they are?

Oh, yes. We have three children. Kathy Buckley oh, my mind went blank. I'm just trying to think of her married name. Can we back that up a little bit, or is that alright?

It's okay.

Okay. Kathy Buckley Hoffman. And Kathy's, oh, she's about 45 now, and our middle daughter is Judy Buckley Harris, and Judy's about 40, and Jennifer Buckley is our youngest daughter, and Jennifer is about 38. We have five grandchildren. We're really unbelievably proud of our daughters and their husbands and their families. They're all doing very well here in Las Vegas, and we're fortunate to have our children around us as long as we have

Maybe we could shift now and start talking about the Rotary process and activity. When did you join Rotary for the first time?

1976, and a little of the history on that was that Howard Hughes had a publicist by the name of Perry Lieber. Perry had worked for him in the movie industry in California, and worked for him in Las Vegas, and [was] one of his real close associates. I got to know Mr. Lieber through my position on the corporate staff, with being responsible for HR for the hotels and casinos. About 1976, I mentioned to Mr. Lieber that I was interested in looking into what I might do within the community. That the community had been really good to us and we wanted to start doing something to show our appreciation, and Perry suggested that I meet him for lunch at the Landmark so he could tell me about Rotary. So I went to several meetings with him at the Landmark, and he asked me if I was interested, and I said I was, and he said he would [get] back to me, and shortly thereafter, I was invited for membership. So if it hadn't been for Perry and his counsel, I wouldn't be probably even sitting at this table.

(laughs)

Good point. So you've been a member ever since '76.

That's correct.

Do you have any perfect attendance years?

No. That has been one of my shortcomings. I have joked to a certain extent about that, and I'll tell you off the record what that joke is.

Okay. What offices did you hold at the local club level?

Well, I started out, frankly, being program committee chairman after I was in the club for a year or two. Not the first year. To me, it was exciting. Our committee was responsible for making sure we had an interesting program every week, and those were the years when you know, the town had a hundred or a 125,000 [residents]. No, it wasn't then, pardon me. I got my numbers mixed up. Those were the days when Paul Laxalt was in office, and a number of our members had access to people at the federal level that could come back and speak to our club about current events around the world, which was a very, very popular program format. We worked as a team with the rest of the members of my committee to bring in speakers that would really cause the Rotarians to feel that it was a worthwhile luncheon meeting. So that was [the] program committee.

Then I got very involved in community service projects with the club. I just love hands-on projects where you can get with Rotarians and work out there, whether it's Habitat for Humanity or painting rooms out at the childcare center out at what's the name of that Childhaven. The year I was president, we took on a project out there to repaint the inside of all the cottages and come up with new bedding and bedspreads for the children out there. I was involved just a whole variety of different community service projects.

Then when I went onto the board of directors, one of the areas that I had a keen interest in was international service, and the foundation. So I was very active in working within the club on the foundation and seeking funds for the members and giving presentations about the Rotary Foundation. And [I] also got involved in a vocational service activity on the vocational service committee, you know, going to schools and talking about my craft in the human resource area, and talking also about some of the basics of filling out an application and what have you.

It says here Dave Wells was the president the year you joined.

Oh, okay. Dave Wells, okay.

'76-'77.

Dave was the president.

I'll be darned. Do you remember who the secretary was in those days?

Irwin Kishner had been secretary forever in our club. And I don't know when he started and when he stopped being secretary.

But it says here he succeeded you as president.

Yes, he did.

In '83-'84.

Right. He did, yeah.

Interesting.

And Irwin, so you know, was very instrumental in getting the international convention to Las Vegas.

Was he? Okay.

Yeah. He'll tell you all about that.

Right. Could you talk about the Rotary Club of Las Vegas in terms of its organization and the general interest and philosophy of the club as it has evolved over the years?

Ever since I can remember, the emphasis in our Rotary Club and Rotary International had been identical from the standpoint that Rotary is a service organization and it's our objective as Rotarians to promote world understanding and peace, and we have always felt able to do that. We felt we could demonstrate our commitment through the organization, through all of its members around the world it's a worldwide organization. By promoting youth to travel and scholarships to any one of 80-odd countries, our scholarship program has been And so [we promoted] other youth programs, whether it was scholarship programs or summer exchange programs where youth of high school age could come into our community and where we would put them up. Let's say they came from the Netherlands, then we would send groups of our similarly-aged children over to the Netherlands on the opposite end of the exchange. [We supported] group study exchange programs, which are really for established businesspeople between 25 and 40. Teams of those people on exchange basis. Learning first about Rotary here in the United States from the local clubs would then be sent with a leader to another country and have the opportunity to learn about their profession in another country, with opposite exchanges coming back this way.

And then we had the Health, Hunger, and Humanity projects where there are crying needs for it because of disasters around the world, being able to send food and clothing and Rotarians. As opposed to just sending money, we actually send Rotarians to various parts of the world, and some from the needy country, to make sure the projects are completed.

All of this gets done in the absence of dealing with governments, but they frequently have to be approved by the governments in [the]other country that allow Rotarians to work on these projects. So that's how we really go about promoting world understanding and peace as it relates to other countries. We do the same thing in our own country by working on community service projects, projects that might not otherwise get done if we didn't do them. We never seek any publicity, really, for what we are doing. We just determine what needs to be done, and it goes before a grants committee. And then once it's approved, we all man it and, in essence, get the project done. So it's service. You know, you hear of service organizations, but this is really a service service organization, and one that I'm very proud to belong to.

Where has the club held its meetings during the time of your membership? I believe it's moved several times.

Yes. Our club, at least going back to I would say sometime in the 40s, started meeting, believe it or not, in hotels and casinos. In the showroom. Showrooms of hotels and casinos. I know that when I joined in '76, we were meeting at the Landmark. We went from the Landmark to the Holiday Casino on the Strip, which was tied in to the Showboat on the Strip. And from there to the Flamingo Hotel and Casino. Always in showrooms, again. And from there we went to the Frontier in their showroom. And I think the sequence was then we went to the Desert Inn and met in the showroom there for many years. And right now, it's an exception. We're meeting at Lawry's, but it's a lovely accommodation, and the club's doing very, very well. We just had several presidents in a row with great teams that have just fired up our club. So that's the sequence.

That's the sequence, yeah. I was looking at the history of the club, and it talked about a number of projects that occurred during the time that you were the president, and I wanted to ask you a few questions about those.

Yes.

It says that during your year, the club raised about $105,000 to support youth summer employment.. I wondered how you went about it. Would you talk about how you went about raising that $105,000?

Yes. This was the year I was president. Yhere was a national recession going on, and there were a lot of needs in the community, and one of the projects that our club decided to initiate, frankly, was to try and find jobs for disadvantaged children during the summertime. You know, that were able to work, 16 or over. And one of our members of the club, Jimmy Cashman III, was on the board of directors of the Nevada Power Company, and Jimmy knew what our objective was was to provide jobs, and he was able to, in essence, get a grant, the equivalent of a grant, from Nevada Power for us to hire or for Nevada Power to hire the disadvantaged youth. I know we had 10 or 12 students, or 10 or 12 disadvantaged youth that worked all summer long, and had I think a very rewarding experience. They were always under the supervision of someone from Nevada Power, and they were utility people and went around and did whatever they were asked to do, and it was very, very successful. I don't remember the exact amount of money that that program initially was authorized by the power company, but I would guess maybe 20,000 or 30,000, something like that. It could have been a little more.

Now you had some procedure inside the club for raising money, though, the $105,000. How did you actually do that?

The Rotarians pay, in other words, they have dues. And the dues really are made up of several different components as far as contributions go. One is you have to pay for your own weekly meals, you know, because we meet every week. And then another part of it is the commitment to contribute through the fining process that you agree to in advance. X number of dollars for the year that will be used for community service projects. Another part of your responsibility as a Rotarian is to contribute to the Rotary Foundation for our international projects, and some of that money also comes back into the community. So it was through the contributions and solicitation of our members that we were able to raise the equivalent of $105,000.

And did you say something about auctioning off, or having some items that were bid on or something?

Yes. For many years, up to the point that I was president. We had an auction each year to raise funds for the Rotary Foundation, the Paul Harris Rotary Foundation. And the way we did that was each member would provide items for the auction that were indicative of their craft or the business they were in, whether it was Ted Wiens bringing in two sets of four Michelin tires that would go on the block, which was a very popular item. Or somebody working for Sears having some items from their store, or J.C. Penneys. I remember because my son-in-law was in the title and escrow business; he would come up with a half a million dollar title and escrow package that would be free.

Now what is his name?

Jeff Harris.

Harris.

Jeff Harris. Right. Jeff Harris. And everybody would really get behind it. Jim Corey was our auctioneer, had been for a number of years. He was a great auctioneer, and Jim just knew how to get every single penny out of the fellows for every item that was up there. I usually also had some dinners from hotels and casinos because I was in that business at the time, and Jim Corey would come up with all kinds of gifts, even some jewelry from one of the concessioneers at Circus-Circus. So we had a great night that night, and raised $19,000, which was a big number for us. I think up to that point, it [was] the largest amount that had been raised with the auction.

What were the circumstances surrounding the purchase of the van for Meals on Wheels?

We have a grants committee within our Rotary Club where various agencies can come to us and tell us about what some of their needs are. They submit a written proposal to us, and one of our members, Tom Miller, who is executive director of Catholic Welfare, submitted a proposal to us where he was pointing out that they needed for their Meals on Wheels program, a van to take meals around to shut-ins that were not able to come to other Catholic Welfare centers to have their meals. They had several vans, but they really needed a new one. That was presented to our grants committee and was approved, and Tom wound up with a real fine looking red I remember it, red van, which had the Rotary logo on it and the necessary information about the Catholic Welfare Meals on Wheels program information on it.

It says here also during your presidential year that the club provided some scholarships for the community college and for UNLV. Talk about what the process was there, the size of the scholarships and generally how many of them there were.

Our club for years prior to me becoming president had been giving  I have a hard time remembering exactly how many, or the value of them but we were giving, I remember something about six scholarships to community college, and I'm not sure how many, but I know definitely that we were giving scholarships to UNLV at the same time, as well as recognizing the top scholar of the year at UNLV each year.

What form did that recognition take?

The individual was presented a medallion that was provided by the Las Vegas Rotary Club. It was presented to the highest scholarship achieving individual who had graduated from UNLV that year who, of course the university selected. And we always invited the person that was receiving the award and professors from the university to come to our luncheon the day we'd be presenting the award to the scholar. It was a wonderful occasion to interface with UNLV and most of our members have had various contacts with UNLV most of their business life here in Las Vegas. So there's always been a very close tie between our club, UNLV, and the Community College.

Right. And I understand that those millennium medallions were created in 1964 to represent or recognize the hundredth anniversary of the founding of the state.

Yes. That's correct, and I know for many years we were using uncirculated silver dollars for that medallion, and I don't know whether they're still using them, but they had bought back I want to say in the 30s or 40s – they had bought a bunch of these uncirculated silver dollars for various presentations.

This is the continuation of the interview with Mr. Joe Buckley, tape 1, side 2, on Wednesday July the 17th, 2002. Mr. Buckley, I wonder if you'd talk about the nature and the content to the extent that you remember it, of the 25 week community service television program that was aired during your presidential year.

Yes, I'd be glad to. Our club had talked for some time about the best way to inform people in the community about Rotary? What was Rotary? What did Rotary do? Not from the standpoint of looking for any appreciation from anyone, but to let them know about Rotary so that other people could hear. Not everyone had a Perry Lieber like I had, and we felt that this was another way of [focusing the] businessmen's attention [on] the type of work we do generally in Rotary, without naming specific projects, but naming the kinds of services that we provide [in] vocational service, community service. Even club service: how we have a function to make sure that we're taking care of our members and providing them with activities where they can commingle with each other outside of the usual weekly luncheon. You know, at parties, whether they be holiday in nature, or other kinds of get-togethers. And all about the international service projects that are done: the Group Study Exchange program; the Health, Hunger, and Humanity program; and scholarships, etc. The program ran for approximately 25 weeks. It would be single spot things, something like, All of the things you would like to know about Rotary or something like that. It [had a] kind of a catchy opener that we were able to get formatted for us, and it really gave you a good idea of what Rotary did.

And these were aired on one of the local channels?

Yeah, it was either KNPR, [or] it could have been channel 8. It could have been channel 10, but I'm sure one of those television stations would have the history of it, and possibly even the clips.

It was also mentioned in the local history that the club provided some support to the Salvation Army during your presidential year. Could you comment on the nature of that support?

Sure. One of the big things that we have done for years for the Salvation Army – not only just during the holidays, but off and on during the year – is to gather food products for them, because the need for food for the Salvation Army is a 365 day a year type of a program, and one of the little joint service club projects we've had with the Kiwanis is just before Thanksgiving each year, our club meets with the members of the Kiwanis clubs in town, and the objective of the program is to exchange pleasantries with one another, and chat with people we haven't met with in some time. And at the same time, to see which organization could bring to the meeting the most food for the Salvation Army. And that's been a competition that's been going on for I don't know how many years, but I know it's over twenty. It's probably forty or something like that, because they're both very fine service organizations, and they always look forward to that challenge. This year, they beat us for the first time in many years, but in jest I kidded the people involved in the counting of the food, because there's a member from our club, member from their club doing the counting, and I accused our guy of allowing the Kiwanians to count every pea in a can of peas. (He laughs.)

Another thing that apparently occurred during your presidential year was the raising of a large contribution to the Paul Harris fund, which I assume went to help with the ambassadorial scholarships and so forth. How did you go about generating support for that effort? I guess this was something you would have had to take on personally.

Every year, we're raising money for the foundation by virtue of [the fact that] every member of the club agrees to contribute at least a hundred dollars a year to the foundation, so we get money that way. And then the other things that we did not only my year, but generally in any president's year in our club is, [to] look for the opportunity to talk with our members about becoming a Paul Harris fellow. To become a Paul Harris fellow you need to contribute either $100 a year, or by accelerating the program, contributing more, so that you [reach] a total in your account of $1,000. That's what we call a Paul Harris fellow contribution. And we just had a very active committee that year that were working with everyone in the club, encouraging everyone to become a Paul Harris fellow if they could that year, or as soon as they felt they reasonably could. The funds from the auction, the $19,000, also was part of why we were successful that year in raising so much money for the foundation. It was an overall effort, several-pronged effort to really support the Rotary Foundation.

Another thing that gave us impetus and I think caused us to have a greater measure of success in raising funds that year for the foundation was that Rotary came out with the beginning of a drive to eliminate polio in the world. And at that time, foundation dollars were being used for that project, so our club really rallied around that project, and our foundation contributions ever since that year have been up, and we're still working on the project to eliminate polio. We think that we'll get there by 2005, eliminate it totally in the world.

A great goal. Here's an off-the-wall question: during your presidential year, the club donated a large wooden awards board to the UNLV College of Education to be mounted outside the dean's office in the Carlson Education Building. The building is named after a member of the Las Vegas Rotary Club, William E. Carlson. First of all, did you ever meet Dr. Carlson, and then how was it that this project came into being to the extent that you recall it, and who was the lead person on that one?

I don't remember who was the lead person on that project at this point in time, but I know we've always had a close relationship with UNLV and a high interest because of our scholarship program, and [with] the university being right in our back yard, in working with the university on a variety of different projects, whether it [be of] a scholastic nature, or [for] athletic support, or whatever it might have been. And I know we were that year recognizing schools, and UNLV happened to be one of them where we thought that there should be some recognition. we talked to the university to see if they would be interested in in highlighting some of their professors that had been here for a while and were well known, and the project was put together [on that basis]. I'm sure I had some committee that knows all about this in much more detail than I do, but we were all a hundred percent in favor of it, and I think we had a pretty good turnout for the official unveiling of the plaque.

Was Dr. Carlson alive at that time, or do you recall?

I don't recall. I want to say yes, but I'd be guessing, frankly.

Now you've mentioned the ongoing relationship between the Rotary Club of Las Vegas and UNLV, both as an organization, and of course, on the part of a number of individual members. I wonder how that relationship has evolved over the past 25 years or 30 years as you've observed it?

I just think that relationship has continued to grow. Frankly, between our club  And actually, it's not just our club, I think it's the other Rotary Clubs in the area. It's just been getting to know the various people, whether in my case as an example. Jerry Vallen, Dick Basil, and members from the business school. We all have a lot of reasons why we come out here to the school. Many times I've been invited out, as an example, by the Hotel School or whoever was putting on a labor management class, asked me to speak about Culinary Union negotiations. Things like that. It's just a general interest, I think, among our businessmen in trying to do anything and everything they can to work with the university to enhance it in any way we can. I remember a young fellow by the name of Mike Unger who worked for me for years, was a graduate from the Hotel School. And I hired a number of graduates from the Hotel School. (They are interrupted by a phone ringing.)

You said this fellow Mike Unger worked for you for so many years.

Right, and he was my employment manager. But the reason I mentioned Mike's name, because Mike was very involved, and we were trying to help him get more and more involved working with Jerry [Vallen] to help develop a master's program for the Hotel School. So it's just a little indicator of how we all grew to learn more and more about the university as the university started to grow and expand and add departments. That evolution caused, I think, not only Rotarians but everybody in this community to get more behind it, [more] involved with the university. Like Wing Fong, my gosh, Wing has been a member of our club going all the way back to the late 40s or early 50s. Wing and Lily Fong, and they have made contributions here at the university, as you know, for many years.

Yes. It says here he joined the club in 1968.

Oh, 1968? Pardon me. In any event

A long time.

Yeah, long time.

I wonder if I could get you to comment on the sixtieth anniversary gala that took place in 1983 during your term of office as president. I'm interested in where it was held, and what things you addressed, and any highlights of the event that you can recall.

Sure. I'd be glad to. It was a fun night. As you know, it was the sixtieth anniversary of our club, having been chartered in 1923, and we decided to have it as close to the original meeting place as we could. The original meeting place was a restaurant called The Beanery which was at the foot of Fremont Avenue on the west end. Well, The Beanery had been gone for many, many years, and the Union Plaza was sitting on that ground, so we felt it was appropriate and finalized actually having our sixtieth anniversary there at the Union Plaza. If I recall correctly, Frank Scott was at the time the general manager of the property, and his team worked with us to really put on a very special event.

The theme for the night, the evening, was more like the gay 90s, or attire of the period. And many Rotarians came dressed in clothing of the day, and it was just a wonderful evening of camaraderie and [we] even played a lot of old music, right on down to the 40s and the 50s, and some of our members at that time were of that vintage, me being one of them. And one of the special things we did that was I think helpful to the UNLV, one of our members contacted either the library or the historical archives department to see if they had any pictures they would like us to display of the period. And sure enough, they came up with a number of pictures, and with a special request, because in a number of the pictures, they didn't know the names of the various people that were in the pictures. They may have had a couple of names, but not all of the names. So it was set up in such a way, each picture was on an easel, and we must have had fifteen pictures if we had one, and what the members would do is go around, and they had a piece of paper to write on that was a part of the easel where they could write in the names of the people they recognized. The members had a lot of fun doing that, and we felt it was useful for the university.

Our governor at that time, Billy Ryan, came up, and he was always very supportive of the clubs up here in Las Vegas, and Billy and his wife came up, and they just joined in the festivities and just had a great time.

Now was that when you folks actually planted the Paul Harris friendship tree in Rotary Park?

Yeah. That was the same Rotary year, in 1983. I'd forgotten all about that. Yeah, Rotary Park was donated by a Rotarian many, many, years ago, and the prior year, our club had built some barbeque pits there and had put covering over the park benches so you could sit in a nice shaded area, and then I just happened to contact the other Rotary Clubs in town and asked if they would like to participate in the purchase and the planting of the tree as an overall Rotary project in the area, which they did do. And I can still remember my first grandson, who was about six months old, sitting there watching all this going on with my daughter. One of these days, he's going to be a Rotarian. But it was a very successful project.

Now where is that park located?

Let's see. When you go west on Charleston and cross Valley View, the first street you can turn right on, I don't whether that's Henson Drive, but it's the first street you can turn right on, and you go back to a service street and make another right hand turn, and it's that park right back in there. Another way of knowing generally where it is is there's a UMC QuickCare facility, or at least there was, right there on Valley View, and the park is due west of there, right behind it.

Actually, as far as maybe this is a little bit misplaced on my part, but I was just thinking about my reference to the UMC QuickCare. That building is on Rotary property that is leased from us, and we receive revenue from that for our various service projects. And so that's another way we receive funds to do some of the things that we do as Rotarians.

How was it that you came to own that property?

It was actually a piece of the as I understand it of the park that we put in there. It was actually part of that parcel, but it had to be  for some reason or other the line of demarcation wound up allowing enough land there to put up a building, and some businesspeople elected to put up the building, and we just leased the land to them. We didn't want to sell it.

The club foundation, the Rotary Foundation, is that a freestanding entity, or are you connected with that  there's something called the Nevada Community Foundation, which manages

We're not connected with any other Nevada corporation. Foundation, corporation. We actually have two foundations in our club. The Rotary Foundation, that's Rotary International Foundation, is the Paul Harris Foundation. And I've been talking all along about contributions to that. We have a separate foundation which is The Rotary Club of Las Vegas Foundation, which we encourage Rotarians to contribute to and become benefactors of to help fund on an ongoing basis all of our community service projects in Las Vegas. They're both tax-exempt corporations, in essence. So that's the other foundation.

Let's see, now. Jumping forward a little bit in time. You became the district governor in '85-86, and were, as you mentioned, the first southern Nevadan to hold that office. I wonder if you could talk about the plans you made and the programs you provided direction for during that year, and maybe also it would help if you could talk about the nature of the relationship between Nevada and California Rotarians during that period of time.

Yes, I became governor of Rotary on July 1st, 1985, and my term ran from July 1st '85 through June 30th, 1986. And this was, again, a year when as governor of Rotary, my obligation was  I had been an international officer of Rotary. A governor is in that category. My responsibility was to work with all of the clubs in our district, to help them grow and resolve any situations that they needed some help with. Make sure I visit them and evaluated their operations and report it right back to their own board of directors of the Rotary Club. And in doing this from the standpoint of visitation, our furthest club away in Nevada was a club in Caliente, which was at that time fifty-plus years old, down through Las Vegas, and all the way down Highway 15 through Barstow, Victorville, there are a lot of Rotary Clubs down in that area. Apple Valley, and then down Cajon Pass into California. You really were in California after I guess we crossed the state line here in Primm. But the district then went along the foothills then when you got down Cajon Pass all the way up to Cal Tech in Pasadena, and we had in our district all of those foothill Rotary Clubs. Whether they were in Ontario, Upland, Arcadia, on and on and on. The bulk of our clubs I would say at that time probably 40 of our clubs were along those foothills leading all the way up to Cal Tech.

We had at that time around 2,000 members. Rotarians covering that geographic region, and our district lines are still the same today as they were then. And it was my responsibility again to visit the clubs and do what I mentioned a moment ago, but also to attend their social events and help them with their fundraising projects. It was really an exciting year. It was still a year when we were all working on, as we are today, the elimination of polio in the world, and we were all able to raise a tremendous amount of money for that. That year, Rotary International as an organization wound up raising somewhere around $328 million. Not really all in that year. Probably from '84 to '86 we raised about that kind of money as an international organization, and really got the polio program off you know, really running successfully.

The other thing we wanted to do the year I was Rotary, as we always want to do, is still have a good time but have a constructive year with a lot of community service projects, vocational service projects, international projects. I remember, I believe it was that year where we were able to go through the help of Bob Forbus in town, who still had a connection to Mercy Ambulance. Bob was willing to fix up an ambulance they were getting ready to put on the block and in essence signed it over to us, and we found a Rotary Club in Mexico that had a project where they needed an ambulance. They were in a rather remote area between two towns, but a heavily trafficked road. And there were always accidents, but they had no way of providing medical type vehicle to transport people. So we brought them up to Las Vegas and presented them with the keys, and they were very appreciative. We had just many projects like that going on that year.

During my year, as far as international projects go, activities weren't any different than all of the years I can remember, because this is something Rotary does every year. You know, getting involved with a lot of international projects, whether it's drilling water wells in India, teaching people how to farm, you name it, it's just some of the things we do.

I was asking you about how, being as large and diverse a district as we are, were the relationships between Rotarians from southern Nevada and the California contingent?

The relationships between the clubs are just outstanding, and they have been ever since I can remember. We engage in activities with the other clubs. Some of the southern California clubs will come up, as an example, and put together a softball team and play a combination of players from the various clubs up here. We'll do things like that, or we'll get involved in other athletic events supporting the clubs in southern California.

One of the fun things that Liz and I were invited to participate in was the NASCAR supported drag race down in Pomona. And the Rotary Clubs in that area  This is when I was governor  The Rotary Clubs in that area were raising funds at that location by virtue of things they were selling to people who were coming to the races, and it was the first time Rotary had really gotten involved with an official competitive racing group. So Liz and I had the opportunity to race each other in stock cars on a drag strip. And they were brand new Buicks, okay? And here I thought I was going to be the hot shot and leave her in the dust. I'm here to tell you, she beat me in the measured track, and I haven't heard the end of it since then.

How fast did you get going in that thing?

Oh, got up to around I was up in 90s. Liz had to be a little over a hundred to beat me.

Serious driver.

I'm calling her now Lead-Foot Liz, because she demonstrated she had it. But that's just an example, or an indicator, of the kind of events, the fun things we do. In any organization, whether it's a service organization or business organization, you've got to have some fun, and everybody can enjoy it.

It says here at the district conference which was held in San Diego at the Hotel del Coronado, that this would have been in '83  that you got the Club Youth, Community, and International Service Awards for club projects during that year. That's pretty exciting stuff, too.

Yes, we had a very productive year, and we came in second in foundation contributions that year, just by a few dollars, but San Marino club just aced us out at the end.

I see.

TAPE 2 SIDE 1
This is the continuation of the interview with Mr. Joe Buckley. It's the 17th of July 2002. This is tape 2, side 1. Okay, let's see, Mr. Buckley. It says here that during your year, or your term as district governor, the 77th annual convention of Rotary International was held in Las Vegas with over 20,000 Rotarians from 102 countries in attendance. I wonder if you'd talk a little bit about the planning process, the inception of the idea, the themes that were addressed at that conference, the personnel and clubs that were involved, and of course your role in overseeing and implementing this important event.

I'll be glad to do my best in that regard. The international convention probably would never have been held in Las Vegas had it not been for Irwin Kishner. Irwin Kishner, who's a member of our club, for many years had been working with Rotary International to bring the Rotary international convention to Las Vegas. And he was successful after the clubs in the area made the necessary commitments to support it, and the other Rotarians in our district to support it and to make sure that certain services were available. So we could handle a large contingent of Rotarians arriving here in Las Vegas, to put them up, to arrange transportation for them, etc. Our club was really the host club along with all the other clubs in Las Vegas, and we had a committee of Rotarians from all of the clubs including our own that would meet periodically to make sure that the plan was progressing in a timely way prior to holding the convention, naturally. We'd been meeting for at least a couple of years in preparation for it, and Ed Cadman was the sitting Rotary International president. Ed was from Washington, and his theme for that year was, “You Are The Key,” meaning every Rotarian is the key to what gets done within Rotary within not only our country but all over the world. And we really stressed within all of our clubs that year not to overlook even a single member in your club, because every member is worthy of being recognized and [of] contributing to the overall success of our Rotary projects. So we really emphasized at a greater level than we ever had before, I think, the importance of the fellowship and making everyone – going out of your way. If you saw somebody wasn't coming to meetings, to contact them. To find out if everything was all right and see if you could bring them to the Rotary meeting if they had a transportation problem. So fellowship was a very big item, big item that year.

And as I mentioned, the polio plus project was [going on.]. At every international convention, you have a number of plenary sessions, which are required sessions where you cover every avenue of service of Rotary. The four avenues of service. And that's the focal point, really, of the international convention: hearing about the status of all of these and the ways of achieving success with these projects, where you're learning what every country is doing. So it's a meaningful learning experience for Rotarians to learn about Rotary, and no convention can be held without having the four meetings, and the meetings will go on for several hours in each avenue of service

Another big thing that happens is the president, who is now the outgoing president, who is Ed Cadman, because he was president '85-'86  the convention was held in '86, gives a report on the  or his representative  gives a report on what really was accomplished around the world in all of Rotary's activities. And you also have then the opportunity to meet the incoming president of Rotary for the year 1986-87.

So anyhow, it sounds as though that must have been a very successful convention, and I guess we've never had another one, have we?

No, we have not. We have not had, and one of these days soon, I'm sure we will. We gave it some consideration in 19 let's see, in the year 2000 we had an opportunity to put in a bid for the international convention, but we just didn't muster the I think it was really more of a problem of timing as to when we started in and the deadlines to get the proposal done to submit it in a timely manner to Rotary International. This was more the problem. We talked about it, but it didn't come to fruition.

I suppose you have to start what, three or four years in advance?

Oh, yeah, but this would be submitting a proposal. It would have been to have the Rotary International convention here in the year 2008, so that's how far out you've got to get bids in, because you know, Rotary announces them for two or three years in advance.

That's true. Let's see now. Back in I guess it was 1987 or 8, women were admitted to Rotary, and I do recall it was a fairly controversial issue at that time, and it's our Rotary district that generated the first woman Rotarian, who's still active in the Duarte club. Could you talk about what influence that whole issue had on the local club, and how you all dealt with the issue once the decision was made to admit women?

Sure. I believe the decision came down from the United States Supreme Court in 1986. I believe it was in '86, and I also believe that Laura Belle Kelch may have been our first member. Her husband Max had been a member of our club and had passed away, and at least Laura Belle was one of the first few women to join our club.

Katie Crockett.

And then Katie Crockett came on, yes, Katie also was invited to membership.

Was Ms. Dondero ever a member?

Yes. Thalia was a member, is my recollection. And really, in Las Vegas, our club had absolutely no problem with it at all. And I think most of the clubs within the United States, and I'm sure there could be some exceptions to this, recognized [that] the United States Supreme Court had spoken, and if there were women in the community that should be invited to membership, they were going to be invited to membership. And you're right, that Duarte was the club that had filed the suit, and they were successful. And the district court ruled one way, you know, as the case wound its way to the Supreme Court, but all of that really is of no significance. The ruling came down, and I've got to say, when I think of our club  that's the one I can speak the most thoroughly on, I think  We've got some wonderful women in our club. I mean, outstanding business executives in their field. Very proactive in the community. They've just made great members. Really. And so there's been no problem at all with women coming into Rotary in our club. And I think I can say that for most of the clubs if not all the clubs in our district.

In some parts of the world, because of the traditions of the countries where some of these other Rotary Clubs are, or because of ethnic differences within those parts of the world, that it may take some time before women will be allowed to join. But the progress is outstanding. It's moving all through the world, and some day in the very near future, I think there'll be women Rotarians in every Rotary Club.

Interesting. Well, let's see. In looking back over your 26 years of Rotary membership in the Las Vegas Rotary Club, I wonder if you could just sort of summarize or encapsulate what you see to be the contribution of the club to the development of the city.

The development of the city phenomenal has been. We get involved in that to the extent of the speakers we have, where we're – For instance, we'll have the regional transportation people come out and give a talk about the whole development of the highway system in the area, and we have construction company people, we have every classification you can think of that's involved here. And by us all staying informed to a great degree on what's going on, we're better able in our own classifications to make recommendations to the various agencies, whether it's the mayor's office or as you know, we'll have the mayor come out and talk to us about what's going on in the city. We've had mayors from every area I think this year except Boulder City, and I've got to get Bob Ferraro out to speak to us. He's been mayor in Boulder City for so many years, I don't know of anyone else being mayor out there. He's just a wonderful, wonderful person.

So that's one way we all stay up on what is going on, either through our craft or these talks, and having the opportunity to let speakers know what our thoughts are about let's say the highway system or the new driverless bus system, and tying the parent Bob Broadbent project with the trams along the Strip. And then talking about some of the needs that we might see there when Bob and his people come speak to us. And then him letting us know what the next phase of development is, even all the way through to the high speed system into California. So as far as the development or evolution of the town, from a facilities standpoint and a road standpoint, that's how we have some impact, I think by making observations to these people in our meetings. And they take us seriously, like I think they do most service clubs. They want to make sure that what the planning for the town and the county and everything makes good sense for all of us citizens of this area.

Let me go back to some more general questions if I might. Because of your human resources background, you should be able to make some really good comments for me. I wonder, when you arrived in 1969, what was your perception of what the climate of race relations was during that period. How were things going?

When I arrived, there had been a large class-action suit that had been filed by the black population here in Las Vegas against the hotel and casino industry. It was called the Telles charge, and the purpose behind the charge was to enable black people to really have an opportunity to rise above lower hotel classifications like porters or maids, and just low-level kitchen help, to have the opportunity to advance within other higher and better paying classifications. Where they could earn a much better wage. That included dealing, it included valet parking, and then also given the opportunity to be trained to be cooks, and right on up. All the front desk classifications, accounting, you name it. Engineering. And the unions were, in essence, involved in that too. They had a responsibility to demonstrate because the hotels have quite a few unions in them. At least most of them do. Some don't have any.

So that's what was existed when I arrived, and we, like many other hotels and casinos, from an HR standpoint, started putting on training programs where we would find out who had what interest as to whether they wanted to become dealers or whether they wanted to get on the front desk staff or whatever, and then we would start putting on internal training programs within the Hughes organization for people who demonstrated either that they had it or they didn't have it, to advance. And the programs were very successful. Many, many people are coming from that charge. As a result of that charge, their lives changed because they had an opportunity. And the hotels were under that charge for many, many years. It wasn't something where everything changed overnight as far as going from this classification now to a higher classification with more pay. It took years of training in certain classifications. For some, the training period was not as long. I think the Telles charge, again, was signed around 1969. Could have been '68, and probably was still in effect when I left the Howard Hughes Company in '85. Still, some properties hadn't been relieved from the commitments that they had to make under that charge.

When did they actually start to integrate the casinos, allow minority people to be patrons?

I've heard Jerry talk about that, Jerry Lewis. Because I remember there was one particular entertainer that was a very [good] friend of his, Sammy Davis, and Sammy was at one point in time in his career on the Strip was only welcome to be in the hotel when he was performing. Just when he was performing, and my understanding is that Mr. Lewis was very instrumental in getting more of the hotels to understand that if Sammy wasn't welcome to be there outside of entertaining, then he didn't want Sammy at all, and he didn't want Jerry at all.

To what extent did the anti-war unrest develop in Las Vegas during the late 60s and early 70s? The Vietnam unrest?

You know, I didn't see any  I have no recollection of any unrest in Las Vegas on that subject at all. I don't remember any demonstrations whether they be marches or otherwise anti-war here in Las Vegas.

At all.

No. Not at all.

Okay. Now you of course were working with the Hughes Corporation at that time, and some historians say that Howard Hughes and Del Webb were instrumental in improving the climate of the community, if I'm saying this property. This by getting rid of some of the alleged organized crime activity. What is your observation on that?

I've heard that, that the corporate influence was a positive thing as it relates to making sure hotels and casinos were being run legally, legitimately. I never saw any evidence of anything that would indicate that the properties I was involved with were not being run legitimately. They were legitimate. I just don't have a feel for it from the standpoint I've never heard anything with any credence as it relates to those kinds of problems. But surely there were problems. I mean, after '69, skimming at several different places became well known, and the Gaming Control Board over the years has taken care of a number of problems in some of the casinos. The Tropicana happened to be one of them, I remember. And then the place that became Palace Station, in the earlier days was owned by someone else, and they had a problem over there.

Anyway, there's no question that there were problems with some of the operators, but I'm sure glad that it really got all cleaned up, and when I got here, as far as my employer was concerned, the Hughes people ran a good house. They really ran a good house, and didn't put up with any shenanigans.

When was it that Howard Hughes purchased the Summerlin property and began to develop that?

Don't know when he purchased it. I'm trying to think of the fellow that was his realtor, or real estate manager for him. Been with him many, many, years, involved in the purchasing of property all over the country. I want to say Herb Knoll, but I'm not sure that's the person. But somebody in the Hughes organization can -- They're the Rouse Company today, but the people that worked for years in the Hughes organization, many of them are still there at the corporate office here. But the land was purchased over many, many, many years as I understand it even going back into the 50s. I think I read somewhere that Howard came here in the early 50s, really, and saw what he liked and started investing in this area, and had, I know at the point that I was still with the Howard Hughes organization, I was told that the company owned 30,000 acres right here in the valley. Right here surrounding the community Summerlin included. And of course, you know, he owned many, many mines throughout the state. Gold mines, silver mines, precious metal mines. He had a very large investment in that area, and what else? I heard that one of his plans was, as far as the Summerlin area, in the early, early, early days, was to develop an aircraft manufacturing operation up here.

I heard that too.

Of course, that never came to fruition, but the Hughes people could not have developed that Summerlin area any better in my books. They just did a fantastic job, I think. That's about all I know about that area.

Slightly different direction here. Some folks argue that Las Vegas now has the feel of a big city while others say it still is a small town in terms of its style. How do you feel about this, and why?

I just went to Tom Wiesener's funeral yesterday, and there are still  There aren't too many Tom Wieseners around, but there are a few, for example the Thomas family and some other families here, the old pioneer families. And we still feel it's a very small town to us as far as the people we've gotten to know over the years . The town's grown, yeah, there's no question about that. There's more traffic, more building going up, and obviously it's been an explosive development. We still love it here. We don't feel like we're in a big city. At least that's the Buckleys' feeling about it. I think my wife would say the same thing. And whether it's Rotary or your social circles or whatever it is, there's still many old-timers that it's fun to sit with and reminisce they say they don't like the traffic, but I don't see any of them moving because of the bigness of the city as it stands today. So I think the old-timers have gotten used to it, and the new people are learning what it's like to live here.

Where do you see the power and influence in Las Vegas as residing? That is, where are decisions made? At the city level by the mayor, through the county commissioners, through the governor of the state of Nevada? Who's pulling the strings, if that's the right way of putting it?

I'm probably not the best person to ask that question only because I never focus on those areas. Not that I don't have some observations every now and then, but yeah, I think the mayor is doing a fantastic job. I was not supportive of the mayor going into office, but he's got a lot of chutzpah and he tries to get things going that are good for the city. And the county managers, what's the chairman's name, it just escaped me for a minute. He's been on the commission for many, many years. I can see his face, but maybe it will come to me in a minute. I think they've done a good job when you know the explosive growth in the area. The same with the city planning people. I think it's turning out well. I think we're going to have a wonderful highway system, the beltway around the city where we can get to places quicker. I think the public officials, they mayors, I'm real impressed with the mayor in North Las Vegas, and as I said, Henderson as well as Boulder City, and our own mayor. So I think they're up to the challenge. They're equipped. I think they're really equipped individually and with the structures they've got that they work with to get things done. I think that they're all well positioned to handle the growth we have and future challenges. I think the area is well served now by some of these lead public officials.

How do you perceive that Las Vegas' image has changed over the years, particularly as attitudes about gambling, or gaming as it's called?

I think with the introduction of gaming in other parts of the country, even the Indian-type gaming operations in California, because of the fact that our emphasis on gaming here has gone from really pure gaming to gaming and resort destinations, to a degree family-type tourist groups [are] coming. Even now, some religious groups will come and hold conventions here now. So I think that the perception of it being just pure Sin City, it's not gone completely. But I think that's been so reduced that  I don't think it ever was a factor that prevented us from operating or growing the way we did, and I think it's becoming less and less an element for people who might otherwise, maybe 50 years ago or 25 years ago, not have come to Sin City, USA. A lot of them are coming now. Especially when you know about the retirement communities that are developing here. Both the east and the west side communities are bringing all kinds of people here because they like the weather. They like the cost of living a heck of a lot better [than] where they came from. Those kinds of things. I don't think it's anywhere near the significance that maybe the Sin City tag had on the town maybe many years ago.

You mentioned that you had contact in your work with the Hughes Corporation in human resources with the culinary workers. Is it kyoo-linary or Kull-inary?

Kull-inary.

Culinary workers. Did you do direct bargaining yourself, or how did you handle the collective bargaining process?

When I was with the Howard Hughes people, the way we bargained with the union, we were members of a multi-employer bargaining unit, and we worked with the Nevada Resort Association, a fellow by the name of Bill Campbell was the lead negotiator. And from each corporation we would have a member on Bill's committee to do the planning for labor negotiations to develop our proposals. And I was that one that represented the Hughes people on that committee. And then we all sat through and argued our cases. Bill was the lead. He did a fantastic job for the hotels and casinos. And we all had the opportunity and often did speak up about our individual problems we were having with the union at our own properties and why we needed changes to the contract.

That must have been very interesting for you to have this chance to be part of those large scale negotiations, which really made a major difference, I imagine, in the whole economy of this community.

Oh, yeah. It did. It made it easier to negotiate labor contracts. For instance, we had six places here that all had labor contracts. Del Webb had several, and there were a couple [of] other places [that] had a couple, like Hilton, and it was a very efficient way to negotiate a labor contract. We had anywhere from seven to eight labor contracts for each property here in town. Some had 10 or 11, depending upon whether they had a laundry or they had a print shop

How often have strikes occurred?

Well, in I think it was 1970, that was my first strike at the Desert Inn, and we had a couple of strikes later on in the 70s, and then the big strike, as I recall, I want to say it was '83-'84. That was a long strike. We were not only negotiating with the Culinary, we were negotiating with the Teamsters. Musicians, stagehands, operating engineers. All of those negotiations were going on for all intents and purposes in the same time frame, and it was a long, long strike. The hotels in essence you know that were part of the Strip, Nevada Resort Association, just replaced their people because they wouldn't cross the picket line, and management just hired other people to go in and get the jobs done. Nobody to my recollection shut down. And then finally, the parties settled their dispute, and I think the last one to sign was the stagehands' union. It was a rough negotiation. There was some violence, and I'm sure the news bureaus got pictures of that.

Right.

Yeah. I left in '85, and I believe a set of negotiations were coming up then  and the picture was changing in resort association bargaining.. They were more or less  What was changed? I'm trying to remember. There was something technically that was different. Instead of having a multi-employer bargaining unit, which is a legal term. In other words, all of the unions that were involved in the multi-employer bargaining unit are saying they recognize [that] it's a multi-employer bargaining unit, and they recognize the NRA as our bargaining agent. Well then the union started trying to break the multi-employer bargaining unit structure by filing as opposed to one reopening letter with the Resort Association for the employers that were members, by sending letters to the individual hotels and casinos saying that we're ready to sit down now and negotiate with you, okay. And that, believe it or not, in my opinion as a labor relations person, really resulted in the union damaging themselves with that kind of an approach, because it's sometime between maybe '83 and '85 and the employers were willing to negotiate that way, and if there was a strike, it would only be against one hotel. And the union didn't think the hotels had the ability to negotiate that way. We were using Bill Campbell, but Bill would be sitting down and representing hotel X, and union Y or whatever. And ultimately, that really caused the union problems. It enabled management to have another approach they could use to negotiate contracts.

I understand that a couple of unions have been decertified recently. Is that true?

I haven't heard of any unions being decertified recently. In gaming?

Gaming.

Gaming? No You know, the dealers, there's a union that's been trying to organize the dealers, and they've had elections over the last two years. Actually just in a few hotels they were successful in getting the vote to require the hotel to sit down and negotiate with them. At most of the hotels they had filed with, they were not successful.

Okay.

I've not heard of any decertifications.

I may have misunderstood. As a closing question, I wonder if you could talk about what you see as the future of the city of Las Vegas, having observed it for almost 30 years?

I think it will continue to have a very bright future. The Nevada Development Authority, I think, is doing an excellent job working on trying to bring in other businesses here so we kind of broaden the basis of business in this area and not be always 90% gaming. They're working on some interesting projects, and it's a long, tedious process, but I think they're really doing a good job. So I'm expecting change as you get out into the further reaches of time that maybe we can't even see now. But within Clark County, I see other businesses, other industries, springing up.

That new airport they're talking about putting in down towards Primm, down in that area. I know it's [been] put on hold now since September the 11th, but I think that handling cargo through there will make it easier to get tourist flights in and out of Las Vegas. We're going to increase our capacity to handle tourists not only through landing aircraft, but [in] transportation around the Strip. There's going to be I think a whole new generation of hotels and casinos, believe it or not. I think everybody's waiting to see what Steve Wynn does at the Desert Inn here. He's got 240 acres or something over there, I'm not sure. And he's such an outstanding developer, and has such an eye for elegance and building places, and the marketing skills that he has, he's just a genius in the field, I think. A lot of people are watching to see what he does, and they're already talking about more casinos going further south on the Strip.

And some real fine developments, housing developments, are going in in the South and West. I think the Thomas family has a big project out there building beautiful homes right up almost to the hill. On top of it is the gypsum plant. The gypsum plant acreage has now been sold, as I understand it. And you're going to see homes and everything develop up on top there where you can have a home and look at Red Rock Canyon on one side and look at the sun coming up in the east. I just see all kinds of possible developments that to me make it look like really the future of Las Vegas is still going to be very, very bright. I'm very optimistic about the town.

How about our water situation?

Water is the biggest problem we have, I think. I don't know, maybe we're going to have to do something like Santa Barbara did. They were lucky they were close to the ocean, but I don't know whether the solution is desalinization of water. There's only so much water in the Colorado River. There's only so many artesian wells way down under they city. Water is We're going to have to start buying water and transporting it in here some way or come up with some other approach. My wife's father was an engineer and a multi-skilled engineer, different disciplines in engineering. She keeps saying, I don't know why they don't just build a network of large pipes and where areas have too much water, you could filter it and flow it off into areas and sell it to areas that need it. And you know, really it would take quite a project to do all of that, but it's feasible. We're going to have to get very creative here in the water area now. And I know that our people that are involved in that know that we've got problems there and we've [got] to do something about it. Do more from the standpoint of reclaiming water, you know, and reusing it for certain functions.

They tell us they're doing that with our golf courses now.

Yeah. Correct. Right.

I always ask this question last. Despite my best efforts, I've probably failed to ask you something that should be asked. What did I not ask you that I should have asked you?

I can't think of a darn thing, Pat, you haven't asked me. I'll probably get in the car and start driving home and think of something. I probably should have freshened my memory about my letter to the Rotarians to give you some more specifics about the things were our objectives that year when I was governor.

This was great. I appreciate you spending the time. This is going to make a big contribution to the project.

Glad to do it, and I'll look for the pictures I mentioned to you that were pictures tied to 1983, '82-'83. And pictures from the district conference that we took. And if there's anything there of significance for you, [I'll get in touch.]

END